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A reader thinking about grad school in philosophy writes:
I am an undergrad looking to apply to philosophy departments for Fall 2013. Is there any reason for me to take the old GRE for what would be a year early? Is there reason to believe that professors who review applications would put more weight on an old GRE score compared to a new one? Is it advisable to take both?
What do readers think?
I just finished up this process last year, so I've been reading up a bit. I don't know which test will be weighted more heavily, but two things:
1) The GRE switches over August 1, so you only have a month to take the old one. It might be better just to wait and study more unless you're already prepared.
2) Scores always drop for a bit when they change the test, but they will normalize soon enough, probably by next year. So if you take the new one, I'd recommend waiting for a solid year. Get a steady regimen of studying and practice tests going for about a month beforehand and you'll be fine.
Overall, if you are prepared or are only a week's worth of studying away, then definitely take the old one. But if you would be rushing into it, then DEFINITELY wait.
One case where it probably makes sense to try to take the old version of the test is if you've already taken the GRE and were dissatisfied with your score. Let's say (for instance) that you have a high GPA and think the other parts of your application will be strong, but you took the GRE and got a 580V/610Q, and you think those scores will hurt you at many places. Grad admission committees won't be familiar with the new scales, even though they can look across to the percentiles, so even if you raise your scores a fair amount on the new GRE as far as the percentile goes, it probably wouldn't have the same effect on helping 'erase' the old scores as retaking the GRE now and getting higher scores on the old system.
Hmm… I'm applying for programs this fall and was planning on taking the new version. Is it really true that scores drop a bit when they change the test? I ask because, well, I could use as much help in the math department as possible.
I hurried up and took the old GRE simply because there would be more resources and wisdom available to study from for the old one. The ETS fights tooth and nail to deny this but it's really a test that you can learn once you see the patterned logic behind all the questions, and there's no backlog of decades of material to use to crack the test. Places like Kaplan dig throug the ETS's trash to find things like, for example, the 1000 most tested GRE vocab words, and base their study resources on that. That would not be as readily available for the new test.
But my advice focuses more on what's available to study from rather than what admissions committees may think mainly because I have always tried to steer away from second guessing admissions commmittees–especially with the GRE. After a certain basic level of information about how admissions committees work I think it's rarely helpful. Admissions committees are too diverse (both internally and externally) to make any confident guiding principles other than "do the best you can on each element of your application."
Disclaimer: I am an undergraduate, class of 2013, as well. What do I know?
I'm in a similar position, looking to apply to graduate school for Fall 2013, but I had already decided that I wanted to get the GRE over with in my freshman year so that I could focus on other things, such as my writing sample, in the future. I also figured it would be best just to avoid all the drama from the adoption process of the new GRE and score normalization.
I didn't consult anyone in my department about this, and I didn't find much talk about it online. I just figured that, most importantly, that there would be no consequences to having taken only the old GRE.
At this point though it's probably too late. I believe you can only take it once a month, which means you'll have one chance in July. I studied a little for the first time and got a 1210, but about a month later got a 1400. Considering the oppressive cost I would be hesitant to take the test only once in July, get a subpar score and your efforts and money being wasted. My advice then is not to bother with the old model.
I am applying to grad programs for the fall of 2012. I recently just wrote the old GRE. As many have already mentioned, scores always drop and study materials aren't as good when tests change…
But I received an email from a (PGR top 50) school stating that I had to take the new test to apply to their program for the fall of 2012. I thought that GRE scores are good for 5 years? I was also under the impression that admission committees were simply going to have to deal with the fact that for the next few years they will receive GRE scores from both the new and old versions. Are other departments going to disallow old scores before the 5 years are up? Are they even allowed to do this?
Whoa! Really? Is what Anon Prospective Grad Student says really true?! I am about to enter an MA program in the fall, and assumed I had the GRE worries out of the way and could focus on, you know, becoming a more mature philosophy student. Am I going to have to jump through the stupid GRE hoop again while in grad school so that I can get into doctoral programs? What gives?
Yes, I did receive an email from a graduate director of a doctoral program (at a PGR top 50 school) stating that I had to take the new test. As I said, I thought GRE scores counted for 5 years, regardless of whether they are the old or new test scores. I have been in contact with other program directors and this issue has not come up. It might be a simple mistake on his or her part. But it does make me worry…
I wonder if professor Leiter could post something asking departments to clarify this? I know this blog isn't just for worried graduate students, but it would help us out a lot. And it's probably one of the fastest ways to clear this up.
AAGS & APGS: It doesn't seem universal, my own department has shown no concerns of me taking the old GRE. Additionally, I was told by a graduate director of a PGR top-50 doctoral program that the old score was perfectly fine for admissions there.
That being said, it certainly would be nice to know if this attitude held any ground among admissions committees.
Unless a department requests a specific test, I would think that your decision should depend on which test you're likely to perform better on.
Look up the changes to the test and make your decision based on that. For example, I've read that the new verbal test will sharply deemphasize pure vocab questions in favor of more reading interpretation (also vocabulary dependent, but less directly so). The math test will have a larger proportion of data analysis questions. Etc.
I haven't looked into it in great enough detail to be more helpful that that, but, if it were my graduate placement on the line, that's what I would be thinking about.
Not quite on topic:
But this whole discussion strikes me as strengthening the argument that we (faculty and departments) shouldn't really be requiring applicants to graduate school to be taking the GRE test anyway. "Preparing" for a standardized test — let alone taking courses designed to raise your score on such a test — should not be part of applying to graduate school.
Perhaps this could be discussed further on another thread?
I second Professor Kremer's suggestion, mostly out of self interest. I'd be interested in seeing this discussed someplace central to the discipline (where better than this blog?) so that the various implications of the new GRE for doctoral admissions (esp. for people who have an old GRE score from within the last 5 years) become clear as quickly as possible.
Putting "self-interest" aside for a moment, I am inclined to think that the revision is a good thing. As many have pointed out already, it'll be harder to "prep" (read, "game") the test/system for the next couple years or so. This will likely equal the playing field during that time; that is, wealthy and affluent students won't have an advantage by virtue of being able to afford expensive test-prep courses (eg, Kaplan, PR, etc), simply because the test-prep companies are still scrambling to "figure out" the new test. No one really knows what the new test will be like and therefore no one knows how to game it. Ideally, in my humble opinion, this is more like the way things ought to be with standardized tests.
Of course, if we bring proverbial self-interest back to the picture, prospective applicants may be wise to wait and take it once the revised GRE has been figured out by test-prep companies. Or take the old one in before August 1 2011.
On a perhaps amusing note, the revised test is scored on a 130-170 (each section) scale–so hopefully departments will stop asking for/expecting impossible GRE scores, eg, in the 700s!(This may lead to some confusion–both for admission committees and students–over the next couple years, when some students can still submit old GRE scores and some will submit revised GRE scores.)
For those that are curious, the score reports for the new GRE will include a line that has an estimated or scaled score where they convert your score on the old test (if taken) into a new test score, helping departments interpret old/new scores against one another.
Example: http://www.ets.org/s/gre/pdf/examinee_score_report.pdf
It looks like the new gre verbal section has been gutted. I've heard that the maximum score will probably be only around the 99th percentile (whereas on the old test the 99th started at 730).
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