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Professor Baldwin’s reply to Professor Weisberg and the Mind Petition

Thomas Baldwin, the editor of Mind, has kindly sent the following reply in response to the petition organized by Jonathan Weisberg:

Let me begin my response to Professor Weisberg’s petition by acknowledging that in November he contacted me to complain that messages he had sent to mind@york.ac.uk had not been answered. I immediately replied, apologising for what was certainly a bad mistake on our part. As I explained to Weisberg, we had recognised earlier in the year that we did not have adequate staff resources for dealing with the ever-increasing volume of Mind correspondence, and had brought in and trained an extra person for this task. I thought that this change had dealt with the problem, but Weisberg’s message indicated that there was more to be done. I hope that we have now addressed that issue, although illness, holidays and other work (such as attention to producing the journal) are liable to give rise to occasional delays.

I hope that this response deals with Weisberg’s first demand. His third one concerns the use to be made of the reports which referees provide. This issue came up earlier this year on Brian Leiter’s blog and in response to it I committed us to a policy of forwarding referees’ reports as they stand, which has already been implemented. This policy was endorsed at the meeting of the Mind Association Executive committee on November 5, the only proviso being that we should not forward comments from referees which are identified as being only for the editor. So I believe that Weisberg’s third demand has already been addressed.

Weisberg’s second demand, that ‘decisions are issued within 3 months (4 in exceptional cases)’, is, however, not one that I would be happy to implement. Before explaining why I should acknowledge that Mind has had a poor reputation for taking too long to come to decisions. To judge by reports from my colleagues I do not think that Mind is in fact any worse in this respect than many other journals, but that is no reason for not trying to speed things up, and I will explain below how we intend to achieve this. But first I should explain the current practice.

Although the average decision-time at present is less than three months, in some cases decisions take six months or occasionally longer. The main explanation for the delays which do occur is the time it has taken us to find suitable referees who are willing to report and then to receive reports from them. What especially causes extensive delays are situations in which people agree to provide a report, but then fail to do so (sometimes for understandable reasons, such as illness); so that we have to start again. A further reason is that unlike most philosophy journals Mind does not impose a length limit; as a result we receive a good number of long submissions (over 15000 words), and there is no question but that long papers take longer to evaluate and report on than short ones.

Finally, in many cases in which we are strongly recommended by a referee to accept a paper we are also being recommended by another referee to reject the paper. I gather that in situations of this kind it is standard practice at some journals to treat the recommendation to reject as ‘dominant’ and reject the paper. That is certainly not my practice: instead I read the paper, at least twice, and make up my own mind, though always drawing on the opinions of the referees. That takes time, especially if the paper is a long one; but I cannot conceive of a proper way of coming to a decision about a paper where the recommendations conflict (as they often do) without some procedure of this kind.

In order to implement a three or four month limit the changes required would, I think, be the following: (i) we would have to limit the length of papers to 12000 words; (ii) we would have to simply reject papers for which no reports from referees were received in time; (iii) where time was running out before a conflict in advice could be resolved (e.g. where the reports come in late), we would have to apply the rule that a reject recommendation is dominant. I do not think that these changes would be improvements; indeed I can think of several excellent papers that we have published recently which would have been rejected had these changes been made. We might also need to introduce a moratorium on submissions if the volume of submissions received appeared likely to lead to a breach of the four month limit. I am of course aware that some other journals do have this practice and I am not opposed to it in principle. But we have never implemented it both because it potentially deprives the journal of some excellent papers and because it limits the opportunity of authors to have papers published in Mind.

For all these reasons, therefore, I am opposed to implementing Weisberg’s second demand. Nonetheless I am prepared to commit us to trying to implement the following policy: (i) that the average decision time be (as a present) less than three months; (ii) that the maximum time be six months, unless there are exceptional circumstances which we would communicate to authors. I hope that this policy will satisfy those who have signed Weisberg’s petition even though it falls short of his proposal. Implementing it will be helped by an important change which we have already agreed to make, namely that next year we will introduce the ScholarOne system for web-based submission and review.  This should enable us to keep an eye on the time taken since submission, and in particular  to expedite the process of gathering reports from referees. Once we are familiar with the system I will publish data on the current decision-times. If the result of all this is a procedure that really enables us in all cases to reach well-considered decisions within four months, then I would be delighted. But at present I cannot in good conscience commit myself to working within that deadline. 

I thank Professor Baldwin for this judicious and detailed reply to the concerns raised by Professor Weisberg.  I have opened comments for further discussion:  full name and valid e-mail address required for ALL comments.

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12 responses to “Professor Baldwin’s reply to Professor Weisberg and the Mind Petition”

  1. Jonathan Weisberg

    Professor Baldwin’s response is a mixed bag. There is some evasion and obfuscation, but there is also some transparency, genuine effort, and progress. I’ll address his replies in order.

    On the matter of Mind ignoring correspondence, Professor Baldwin explains that earlier in the year he put extra staff in place to resolve the problem. But he acknowledges that my recent case (just mine?) demonstrates there was “more to be done”. He hopes that Mind has now addressed the issue, but does not say what grounds that hope. Yet he continues, “I hope that this response deals with Weisberg’s first demand.” To summarize: he hopes that describing his hope deals with a problem even additional staff didn’t fix.

    I hope so too, but I am skeptical. Professor Baldwin mentions apologizing for ignoring 4 emails I sent to Mind over the course of 2 months. But he doesn’t mention that Mind went right back to ignoring my emails after apologizing for doing just that. Our shared hopes were not enough to prevent a relapse.

    On the treatment of referees, Professor Baldwin says the problem was already addressed last month, when Mind adopted a new policy in response to Prof. Schroeter’s concerns about withheld referee reports. But the petition raised a very different problem, which Mind’s new policy does not address. The problem described in the petition is that referees sometimes submit reports only to find out the paper was already rejected or withdrawn, so that their work was in vain.

    My own case from just two weeks ago demonstrates that Mind shows disregard for referees’ efforts in other ways too. I learned after withdrawing my paper that Mind had by then lined up 4 referees to write reports! They must have expected that one of these 4 referees would probably begin the work of reviewing the paper but would not finish before a decision was made or the paper withdrawn.

    On review times Prof. Baldwin’s response is more encouraging. He argues with commendable openness and detail that guaranteeing a 4-month limit is impractical, proposing instead a 6-month limit save for exceptional circumstances. He also mentions that Mind will move to an online editorial management system, which is welcome news.

    I strongly disagree with Prof. Baldwin about what is feasible here, though I see our disagreement as of the reasonable kind, and I thank him for engaging in a direct and frank discussion. I’ll briefly sketch some reasons for my disagreement, but I am much more interested to hear others’ thoughts.

    Prof. Baldwin cites three reasons review times might exceed 4 months: derelict referees, conflicting referee reports, and long papers (15,000+ words). I agree that 15,000+ word papers should be an exception (their authors should be harshly disciplined). But things can be done about the first two cases: ask for reports in 4 weeks (a report takes at most a few days, it’s just a matter of finding those few days in a 4 week period); as soon as the 4 weeks are up, go to another referee for an emergency report with a shorter time-frame; bring on additional editors to help with decisions about conflicting reports. And even if nothing could be done to solve these problems, they should still be handled better. For example, when referees go AWOL the author should be informed, maybe even consulted about how she’d like to proceed. And when reports conflict, the EIC may need to read the paper carefully before to issue a decision but that should add only a few weeks to the review time, maybe a month.

    There’s obviously more to be said on both sides of this argument. I hope Prof. Baldwin and others will continue the discussion from here.

  2. I think Professor Baldwin's response is very reasonable. And I think that the philosophical community should welcome these attempts to improve the editorial process at Mind. Implementing changes takes time and I think that we should all assume that the Mind editorial board are acting in good faith and are doing what they can to address the problems raised. Perhaps Professor Baldwin could agree to report back, on this blog, on the improvements that have been made within a fixed time frame. (Say, 6 or 9 months).

    I disagree with Professor Weisberg's tone concerning longer papers. Some topics require longer lengths than others and not all ideas can be worked through adequately in a 20 page paper. Suggesting that all journals only accept a certain type of paper leads to an unhealthy homogenisation of the discipline. So I think it is very important that there are some major journals willing to accept longer papers.

  3. So far as I can tell, implementing the ScholarOne system effectively deals with some of the problems more or less automatically. The system can be configured so a referee can see whether other reports have been submitted and whether a decision has been made (some journals configure the system so that referees can see what decision has been made, and even access other reports). And the system automatically logs and acknowledges reports. So I think these problems should vanish.

    Professsor Baldwin is entitled to want Mind to remain open to longer submissions and to not have a default procedure for settling referee conflicts. I think these views are reasonable, though I also think that journals who place a higher value on speed of decisions also act reasonably. I think though it is time that the profession did something about tardiness of reports. Several people have suggested a system whereby only people who have produced timely reports in the past (say) 12 months should be permitted to submit to journals, with special conditions applying to graduate students and those who are not often asked to referee. It is time such a system was implemented. Perhaps anyone who wishes to submit a paper to a journal should submit their name to a database of eligible referees, along with their AOS (in detail). People in the database who refuse all requests for refereeing would be barred from submitting for a short period (short to allow for the fact that people can have legitimate reasons for refusal). Those who accept invitations to referee and do not meet the deadline would be barred for a longer period. If philosophy gets its house in order on the refereeing side, problems stemming from delays on the editorial side would be easier to diagnose.

  4. An article of mine was published in Mind last year. The process was by and large a positive one (eight months from submission to decision, but then this was one of those 15,000+-word articles — sorry!). It was particularly notable that (i) the editor provided his own detailed comments on the paper, on top of two referee reports (both were positive although one was qualified), and (ii) the editorial administrator provided detailed copy-editing comments at the copy editing stage.

    These comments were certainly useful. They also gave me some insight into the legendary delays with Mind. It struck me as remarkable that the editor and the editorial administrator would provide this level of attention to detail in addition to their other responsibilities (research and teaching at York and an enormous amount of other work for the journal, including responding to ordinary emails in the case of the editorial administrator). It seemed only to be expected that they would be overworked to the point where delays would be routine.

    At this point I felt much more sympathetic to the journal staff while wondering about the rationality of the system that requires this sort of tradeoff. An obvious solution is to distribute the workload to reduce delays. Of course this requires additional funding or additional volunteer labor, which are nontrivial and rely on assistance from others (those who criticize journal staff might keep in mind the role of funding sources here). But from Professor Baldwin's helpful and encouraging note, it sounds as if part of the issue has been addressed by the addition of a staff member to deal with email correspondence.

    A residual issue is the policy that requires the editor to read and comment personally on so many articles. I have the sense that this policy has played a significant role in a number of the stories that one hears about long delays at Mind. With all gratitude to Professor Baldwin for the supererogatory work he has done for the journal, I might suggest that there are rational alternative policies. For example, some other leading journals have committees of trusted associate editors who can play this role, while others rely on consensus among reviewers. Even if a result is that the group of papers that is published is not identical to the group that would have been published under current policy (and is somewhat worse overall in the editor's own judgment), perhaps this cost would be outweighed by the benefits in turnaround time, with consequent benefits both to the journal's reputation and to the careers of the philosophers who submit to the journal.

  5. I was joking about longer papers meriting discipline; sorry to have been confusing there.

  6. Jonathan Jenkins Ichikawa

    I agree with Jonathan Weisberg that whatever staffing changes Mind has made clearly are inadequate to general timeliness of correspondence. Here is my most recent anecdote to that effect:

    After what Tom Baldwin here says was an uncharacteristically long review period, my paper was conditionally accepted in Mind. I received this notification November 12. I wrote back the next day, asking a clarificatory question about the format in which I should submit the final version of the paper. I sent a follow-up email a week later; a third another week later. This blog post has reminded me to send yet another request for an answer to my first email today. But it has now been five weeks with no answer to a rather simple administrative question, which I have emailed three times. This is some time after the recent staffing changes alluded to in the post above.

  7. I had a thought about how the long-length papers might be dealt with. Unlike Prof. Weisberg's one-size-fits-all suggestion of 4 weeks to review a paper, tie the expected review time to the length of the paper. For example: less than 4k words, expected in 2 weeks; 4k-8k, 4 weeks; 8k-12k, 6 weeks. 12k-16k, 8 weeks. This would have two good effects: 1) Give reviewers a fair and appropriate time limit tailored to the given paper and 2) Encourage shorter articles without imposing a hard cap. Authors who want to get a response/be published quicker can write shorter articles, but authors who think they need more space can 'pay' for that extra space via longer review time – if the 15k is really needed, the extra time should be worth it.

  8. Two suggestions regarding some email issues:

    (1) If there isn't one already, perhaps it is worth setting up an easy to find website with detailed and unambiguous responses to FAQs… This can have generic information on that might mean that *some* requests or queries don't need to be made by email (e.g., of the sort that Jonathan Jenkins Ichikawa mentions, but perhaps of other sorts too).

    (2) Perhaps there can be different email accounts/addresses set up for different sorts of queries, perhaps even with a divide between urgent and non-urgent, which authors/referees can use… (These would have to be made clearly visible/accessible on the internet). This means that there will be automatic sorting of lots of correspondence, which might make it easier for the team to plough through the masses of email received.

    (Apologies if these suggestions are already implemented)

  9. Just a quick point about the time it takes from submission to first editorial decision. Tom Baldwin made another point about this, which Jonathan Weisberg (I think) missed in his summary. It takes a while to get referees (normally two) to agree to review in the first place. I can't speak for Mind, but from my work at Ethical Theory and Moral Practice, and from speaking with other journal editors, this is typically the main reason for decisions taking longer than the ideal. It persists in spite of reminders from journal staff.

  10. Having been the administrative editor and main correspondence contact with authors for a journal that did not, at the time, have any element of its submission process automated, I am sympathetic to some of the points raised by Baldwin in his reply to Weisberg. And I also believe that there are systematic problems with the way we treat refereeing. To fix those problems, and really get the journal/refereeing system working smoothly and correctly, we as a profession need to start treating it like a genuinely valuable and indispensable component of our jobs, rather than treating it like volunteer work. If there are no real incentives to prioritizing this work, and no real disincentives towards doing it slowly/badly/poorly, it will generally suffer from these systemic issues.

    That said, I am curious as to what steps the editors of Mind actually take in the face of delinquent referees. Often, I think, people who agree to serve as referee have a great deal on their plates, and, justifiably or not, the refereeing they had agreed to do falls off their radar. When I was managing editor of Pacific Philosophical Quarterly, I started to be more proactive about reminding referees of upcoming deadlines, or even simply following up with them when they had missed a deadline, and this seemed to do quite a bit to lower the amount of time before referees turned in reports (I have heard that the current Managing Editor at PPQ is even more pro-active than I had been, and that this has brought down the average review time substantially). While I don't think that "the editors should be more proactive" is a panacea for all problems a journal might face, I suspect that many journals could significantly bring down their average review times by being more proactive.

    I may be overgeneralizing on my experiences though.

  11. I note that the average time to review for Mind in Andrew Cullison's journal survey site is 7.14 months. That's based on a fair number of data points (107 surveys). I looked at the raw data the other day and saw that the average over the last 6 months has remained at around 7 months. Of course, there could be many factors that would lead the survey data to misrepresent the true average.

  12. I am not or am likely to be a referee for Mind. But I want to thank Professor Weisberg for taking his valuable time to create a petition and bring this to the public for the good of the profession. There are many junior philosophers waiting for a referee report from a distinguished journal — or even an acknowledgment of submission — that feel as if their career is hanging by a thread. Thank you Professor Weisberg!

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