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    The McMaster Department of Philosophy has now put together the following notice commemorating Barry: Barry Allen: A Philosophical Life Barry…

Chatting with Kate Norlock, Chair of the APA Committee on Sexual Harassment (Kukla)

Recently, the APA appointed a new ad
hoc
committee on sexual harassment in the discipline. I chatted with the
inimitable Kate Norlock (Trent University), who is chairing the committee,
about the committee itself and more generally about sexual harassment in academic
philosophy. There is much more to be said than we could fit into one
conversation, so I encourage discussion in the comments thread. (Although I will be using plenty of moderator's discretion on this one as needed!)

Rebecca: Why are we forming a sexual harassment committee now? Why are we
just now facing the fact that the discipline has a real sexual harassment
problem? How much of that has to do with the power of the Internet?

Kate: I recently looked back at the number of entries on the What is it Like to
Be a Woman in Philosophy?
 blog labeled "sexual harassment." In the word-cloud label on that blog
it's one of the biggest labels, and I count 71 entries so categorized. I
remember when Jenny Saul started that blog, she asked what labels she should
create for the different entries. I suggested that she wait and see what
patterns emerged, and the labels would suggest themselves. I don't think either
of us expected so many stories of harassment so early. I think the power of the Internet, and more importantly, the power of motivated and caring users, is
that philosophers who have experienced or witnessed harassment are finally able
to find each other on blogs like What It's Like. I'm dead grateful that women
in the profession like Jenny Saul have gone out of their way to provide gathering
places for collecting accounts of harassment.

Rebecca: In
your view, why it important that we, as a discipline, address sexual
harassment?

Kate: I think
the effects of harassment piggyback on the effects of a lot of other
marginalizations that are evident in philosophy. The experiences of minorities
in a field that is predominantly white, predominantly male, and predominantly
middle- and upper-class can be discouraging, and perpetuate imbalances in the
demographics of our profession. I think harassment amplifies that
discouragement.

Other
fields make it clearer in policy and organizational statements that harassment
of some sorts is a crime – that it's not just not-acceptable but illegal. We're
a bit behind in that respect. Some of the APA's more recent documents
discourage interviews in private hotel rooms and so forth, with the implication
that past practices are regrettable. But this runs the risk of making it seem
as though the culture of bad practices is a norm that we disparage, not an
unacceptable arrangement.

Rebecca: I
agree that we are behind! My sense is that philosophers are especially bad at
acknowledging that we need institutional guidelines for both preventing and
coping with harassment. Do you think that's partly because philosophers think
of themselves as 'above' cut and dried institutional rules? It seems to me that so
many philosophers think, hey, we are so cool and enlightened and informal in
this field, we can manage to deal with these issues without all that petty
bureaucracy.

Kate: I think
we often try to reject the errors of the past by just not talking about them
much at all. When I was a student we learned to ignore the sexist things that
past great figures said because it was not relevant or didn't matter. By the
same token, it's attractive to say we're past sexually harassing, so why do we
need a statement of best practices? Let's just look away, look away!
Unfortunately, that approach does not seem to help those who continue to
encounter harassment in the profession.

Rebecca: Let’s
talk about the committee itself. What exactly is its charge? What is it
supposed to deliver in the end? 

Kate: Good questions! Let me start by saying what we're not charged
with doing: We are not asked to investigate particular allegations of sexual
harassment, or resolve pending harassment cases in the profession, or expose
scholars whispered to harass. Having said that, our duties DO include
developing a protocol to gather anonymous information about sexual harassment
in the profession. No one expects us to gather comprehensive data, because this
isn't a committee assembled in order to be doing social science either.
Instead, we aim to collect accounts of encounters with sexual harassment so
that our recommendations are reflective of what actually occurs. It could
otherwise be easy to make recommendations from our armchairs about what we
imagine to be the case. We aim to avoid that.

The
goal of the committee, ultimately, is to formulate a statement of best
practices in the philosophy profession in higher education. I joke to people I
know that the best practices could be summarized, "Don't do that."
More seriously, though, we are also tasked with researching what other fields
do to prevent it, to diminish its occurrence, and to make it clearer what
options exist for those who experience harassment.  Our official "deliverables" are as
follows: "The Committee will produce a report recommending best practices
regarding sexual harassment in the discipline be implemented by the APA,
philosophy departments in which APA members are employed, and conferences and
other professional events hosted by either."

Rebecca: The
point about armchairs is really important, it seems to me, because sexual
harassment is a deeply messy affair, and what might seem like really straightforward
recommendations in the abstract may actually be unimplementable,
uninterpretable, or useless in practice. I think that hearing from as many
people as possible who have had to cope with harassment in their professional
life – and not just from victims – would be fantastic.

Will
you just be developing best practice recommendations designed to help prevent
harassment, or also for those trying to figure out what to do when they have
been harassed, or when a student or colleague or staff member reports
harassment to them? Honestly, I think that we are in desperate need of practice
recommendations for those who have been harassed and for those to whom
harassment has been reported; we don't just need prevention guidelines. When
harassment occurs – or seems like it might have occurred – in an academic
setting, it’s not at all obvious how to cope with that appropriately. The
dynamics of vulnerability, privacy, power, gender, age, collegiality, and so
forth all come into play; philosophers need the epistemic humility to
acknowledge that sorting all that out is hard and can’t just be puzzled out
without guidance.

Kate: Our
duty is phrased as one of collecting anonymous information, but it is not
limited to getting that information from victims of harassment. Some
departments and organizations already have better practices that we could all
benefit from hearing.

Our
focus is on prevention, but also one of our duties is the following: "The
Committee should seek legal advice to ensure that any procedures or policies it
recommends are legally sound. Departments are often unable or unwilling to seek
out legal advice; gaining information about legal constraints and obligations
and clarifying them in a report is a valuable service the APA can offer."
So although we're not empowered to create policies on responding to harassment,
we are in a good position to help departments modify their own responses.

Rebecca: Can
you tell me why you agreed to chair this, given that we are all way too busy?
Why did you personally feel that it was an important use of your time?

Kate: I agreed to chair this because I witnessed and helped with the
creation of the What Is it Like blog, and what was said there was extremely
consistent with previous experiences of my own. Harassment can be experienced
as both isolating and isolated. If there's one thing philosophers can do to
help each other, it is to call attention to a possibility that one is not
alone, that one's own colleagues and organizations can establish cultures in
which this is affirmed, and that there is even a possibility for a systemic
response, at least a small one. Shortly before I was asked to chair this, I did
a wee bit of work for the Canadian Philosophical Association Equity Committee.
A CPA poll showed that philosophers in higher education didn't know where to
look for policies and processes. Just making information available for those
who need it can help.

Rebecca: What
is the committee’s time line?

Kate: The work has already started, and different members of the
committee have different experiences with collecting data, with consultation
with legal sources, and with researching other organizations. We're only just
beginning, and will of course need to do the bulk of our work in the summer.
The deadline for our end-product is the November board meeting.

Rebecca: Thanks to you and the rest of the
committee for taking on this difficult and important task! Good luck!

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25 responses to “Chatting with Kate Norlock, Chair of the APA Committee on Sexual Harassment (Kukla)”

  1. Sigh. Hostile anonymous comments will not be published.

  2. I sincerely hope you can do something to fix this. Thank you for trying.

  3. Will the committee be using "What is it Like…" to put together information/anonymous cases, or will there be some other mechanism as well (e.g. surveys sent out to departments or distributed at the APA/other conferences)?

    It would also be interesting to see if there are any philosophy departments out there that have had successes in integrating with university-wide or smaller interdisciplinary sexual harassment initiatives. I know that when we're talking about what departments can do, that's often connected with whatever the liberal arts/sciences college is doing or what the university is doing. I seem to recall that one philosophy department is involved in active bystander training. MIT, I believe.

  4. One of the problems I saw during my time in graduate school is that sexual harassment required the harassed individual to register the complaint, even if the behavior was plainly evident to other members of the department. A harassed individual may feel extremely vulnerable, frightened and afraid to confront, for example, a professor in a mandatory course in a future semester. One of the elements that needs to be changed in dealing with harassment – and it's a change that has to happen above the level of philosophy departments, because universities set this policy, not departments – is allowing complaints to be filed not only by the harassed individual but by others who witness the behavior. Sexual harassment breaks our workplace and campus codes of conduct, yet it is unique in that we require the target to report the behavior. We allow the reporting of violations by witnesses for almost any other violation.

  5. Rachel McKinnon

    I'm concerned about moral licensing. I've seen some departments who've successfully implemented a number of good policies, but they become insensitive to evidence that they're still doing some things wrong. There may also become cultures of gaslighting: dismissing and minimizing people's claims to having been harassed. The response is often, "Well, professor X couldn't have done that — you're overreacting — because he's received our University of Y award for equity." So I hope the committee will create some resources on what gaslighting is and how to avoid it.

  6. peggy.desautels@gmail.com

    As Chair of the APA Committee on the Status of Women, I'm very pleased that this committee has been formed and that Kate Norlock is chairing it! I think it would help to know who else is on the committee. Rebecca or Kate, would you provide us with a list of all who are serving on this committee?

    I would also like to mention that the APA now has a Site Visit Program. I serve as the director of this program. Sally Haslanger and Carla Fehr serve as associate directors. Departments may ask for site visits to assess their departmental climates and to learn best practices tied to improving the climate. The findings of these visits remain confidential and would include addressing any sexual harassment taking place.

    To find out more go to http://www.apaonlinecsw.org

  7. Hilde Lindemann

    Under the guidance of Peggy DesAutels and Carla Fehr, the Committee on the Status of Women has started a site visit program, in an effort to address and improve climate issues for women and other underrepresented groups in philosophy. We'll want to coordinate this with Kate's committee's work, but it's good to see the APA finally get around to initiatives like this!

  8. In the US it is a legal requirement that a faculty member report a sexual harassment incident if he or she learns about it. So, I think that if the behavior is evident, the department members (who observe it) have a legal responsibility to report it. I'm sure that the site visit program can help spread the word about this.

  9. Anonymous at 4: There is a widespread belief that witnesses cannot file sexual harassment complaints. This is almost always false.

  10. Thank you Kate for this important work! There are enough credible reports to think that sexual harassment is a serious problem in the profession, and even if it isn't, we won't know that until we do a systematic study of the issue. It is also important for people to be educated about what counts as sexual harassment. I recently went to a workshop on harassment and bullying offered by MIT and learned that some actions are illegal that I wouldn't have thought counted as sexual harassment. So I hope the committee will include in the report a legally informed description of examples and hypothetical cases, since many of us need education. And if I may make another suggestion, I think it would also be useful to have something on harassment, in general. Another thing I learned in the workshop is that sexual harassment is only one of many kinds of harassment that count as illegal, and it would be useful to know the range of behaviors that fall under harassment legislation. Sorry if I'm adding too much to your plate (and of course you'll need to figure out and be constrained by what falls within the mandate of the committee).

  11. Thanks for highlighting (and making us aware of!) this new Committee on Sexual Harassment. This is a very welcome initiative for lots of reasons. It might prove useful in some unanticipated ways for just through collecting information, we will all be able to learn not only how other departments handle harassment but also how universities handle complaints. I, for one, would be very interested to hear how various universities handle cases where the problematic behavior is not physical harassment but rather verbal — regular misogynist remarks in the classroom. What is the bar at which universities recognize such remarks as a form of harassment? Does it matter whether the remarks are from a professor or a student?

  12. Thanks for your important work Kate! It is exhausting and gruesome.

  13. As mentoring is such an important part of philosophical training we also need to be sure that these policies are enacted in such a way that it doesn't make it harder for students to develop professional mentoring relationships with faculty members. Perhaps training on how to effectively mentor students should be a part of this discussion – a "do this" rather than solely "don't do that" component. Enjoyed discussion of this important issue in Ch. 5 of Sandberg's "Lean In", esp pp. 71-72.

  14. Replying to what Sally said above, I have no idea if this is possible, but I would absolutely love it if there were a way to provide more information to the profession about what counts as actionable harassment. At my institution, there is no way to sit down and discuss a particular incident (even with an ombudsperson) without having a report filed, and the relevant faculty member informed. For obvious reasons, then, when an incident, or even a pattern of incidents, isn't believed to rise to the level of an actionable offense by the victims, problematic behavior goes unreported and largely undealt with. It's hard to figure this out on your own.

    Also, I'd just like to throw this out there as a general comment: More often than not, when I have raised concerns with colleagues, I'm met with a response of trying to do philosophy on the behavior or incident itself (i.e., trying to formulate plausible explanations of intentions or misunderstanding, etc.) and this is incredibly frustrating. It is not easy to bring concerns to light, and it is made that much less easier by having my ability to understand my own experience questioned. I understand that we'd all like to think the best of others, but this has happened not just with one-off sexist comments, or a particular ambiguous action, but in the face of persistent patterns of behavior that multiple women are concerned by, and even when its known that the person being complained about has a history.

  15. I suspect it would be useful for people to learn about what counts as sexual (or other) harassment when it occurs in "non-official" off-campus settings (including conferences or 'off-site' events at conferences), and what the legal remedies are for these incidents if they are different from those that occur in on-campus settings. In my experience such off-campus incidents can be more severe (and perhaps they are more common). The problem is that off-campus and conference activities are, for better or worse, a part of our profession, and a part that can, for better or worse, influence people's careers.

  16. Thanks very much to those of you who've already written with suggestions and comments. On behalf of the committee, I can safely say that your expressions of hoped-for outcomes will be taken seriously (and gratefully) into account. I wanted to directly answer Matt Drabek, too: The charges to this committee are explicit, asking us to devise protocols of our own (in consultation with those of appropriate expertise) to collect information and appropriately anonymize when necessary. Therefore, the desired information for this report will not come from the What Is It Like blog except to limited extents, in consultation with past contributors who've contacted me directly since the formation of this committee.

    Oh, and I should add: The committee is happy to do what we can! But we won't exhaust ourselves, and the results will not be epic. We aim to offer the best recommendations we can within a manageable scope, and the results will not be comprehensive of the last possible word on every aspect of sexual harassment in Philosophy. After all, our starting places are all in higher education, which isn't the entirety of the field of inquiry. So right off the bat, this is a committee that has to work out what we can accomplish and what information is currently available from selected sources. The report we can provide at the end may actually have to point to future possible endeavors, starting some conversations rather than nailing the lid on them.

  17. Every place I've worked, outside of academia, 'requires' the witnesses to file a complaint. Knowing about sexual harassment obligates you to say something about it in most work places, and not saying something, and being found out, can be grounds for termination.

    I see no reason why this type of policy should not be adopted in academia. (I would love to hear arguments to the contrary from others)

  18. A. Nonnie Moose

    I am a white male. And when I began my graduate training in philosophy, I was very happy to be doing philosophy but very "green" about what it was like for a woman to do philosophy. It took me a good four years to learn that there were issues regarding lack of diversity, sexual harassment, and bias. As many young philosophers do, I had my head in the clouds. Culpable ignorance? Maybe. But these are not issues that graduate students should be able to avoid. Grad school, day 1: There are problems in our profession.

  19. Your grad institution did not understand Title IX, which covers these problems. Federal policy makes it clear that a specific complaint is not required, if faculty/adm have reason to believe harassment is occurring. One reason for this is that federal policy covers all ages of students, and would not make sense if K-12 students were obliged to file complaints.

  20. I completely agree. One of the most insidious barriers to dealing with harassment is the fact that so many people are unsure of what harassment *is*. Particularly for women, when we hear sexually explicit jokes, remarks on our appearance/attractiveness, catcalls, etc. from pre-puberty onwards, it can be hard to know when an incident crosses the line from "Asshole on the street" to "Professor breaking code of conduct". I've been involved in a sexual harassment in the workplace situation once, and it took a coworker encouraging me to report it to realize that the situation was beyond shrugging off the crude comments many women deal with every day. It's important in sexual harassment situations that the victims are validated by their peers/coworkers/instructors who are witnesses, since so often we are told it's "no big deal".

  21. Must one be a feminist to serve on the APA sexual harassment committee? Any other qualifications? Legal training? HR work experience? I worry that this might just be another attempt by philosophers to dabble in an area of inquiry they know little about, except as it affects them personally.

  22. Let's not overlook that there are departments that know the rules, train their students, etc….and then proceed to shame, blame, and blacklist the person harassed even after there were witnesses and the harassing professor admitted it.

    What do we do in that case?

  23. Lots of people are noting the importance of making people better acquainted with legal and institutions definitions of sexual harassment, procedures for reporting, etc. This is all tremendously important. However, I think it's vital not to look ONLY to these. Indeed, I've just drafted a paper arguing this, which can be downloaded from my web pages here: http://www.shef.ac.uk/philosophy/research/publications/saulj.

  24. Young Female Faculty

    Some of the problems of sexual harassment in our field involve other 'directions' in the supposed authority hierarchy. As a young female faculty member, I encounter some students who really make my teaching harder and less enjoyable, and who do, I've recently realized, sometimes make my workplace genuinely hostile. They just can't accept that I am an authority figure – they set a particularly disrespectful tone in discussion settings that it takes a lot of work to re-direct, and which lowers the overall standard of discussion in those courses. But they are my students, and I have no idea what to do about this. Informally complaining about it to colleagues has generally meant being dismissed as 'everyone has trouble students', even though the difficulties I am reporting are of a different scale, or different kind, than those the young male faculty members encounter. Guidance about what to do in these situations would be greatly appreciated.

    At our institution, there is also some difficulty with respect to male undergrads generating a rather female-unfriedly environment in, for instance, the philosophy student club. This reduces the number of women who decide to major in philosophy, and it reduces the informal participation of women who are majoring. Guidance on how to deal with these issues, one that involve grads or undergrads but not faculty members, would also be very welcome.

  25. In response to Young Female Faculty member: unfortunately I remember many discussions of this on SWIP-L and other places for decades. I know of some institutions recently who have had senior faculty members talk with philosophy club members about this hostile climate and how to change it, about implicit bias, etc. If there is no "authoritative" senior philosopher who can do it in your own department there probably are in other departments on your campus or philosphy departments at nearby campuses.

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