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The “academic community”: New York vs. London

Brian Leiter

Legal philosopher and public law theorist Alon Harel (Hebrew U/Jerusalem), who recently spent several months first in New York City, then in London, shared the following on Facebook and gave me permission to share it here:

As I am old and retiring in a few months I can say the truth without fearing the consequences re my future (as I have no future). This is a great privilege in academia as academia is a very oppressive environment these days. BTW you are all invited to my retirement conference on December 14-15 in the holy city of Jerusalem.

Tomorrow I will be flying to Israel after three months in the UK. Given that just a few months ago I spent a year in NYC at NYU, I think comparing the experiences could be of interest. I will add that to the extent that my experience is relevant, it is relevant only to the fields of legal theory and theory of public law and only to New York and, in particular NYU.

I have had a wonderful time in London. Intellectually I believe the academic community here is much superior in my view to the one I encountered last year in New York. The workshops here are less for self-promotion and less for cultivating academic narcissism and more about engaging with ideas. I do not deny of course that some narcissism is a desirable feature of academia but it may be somewhat detrimental if it dominates the environment.

Most importantly, the academic community here in England (in theory of public law and political philosophy) exhibits a virtue that I admire and is not in great supply in NYC, namely insatiable curiosity. There are however some exceptions to this observation.

I still have a lot of other true observations to make but I am not sure they are appropriate for this blog (or for public consumption) and I am confident Brian will not be willing to publish them.

I am curious to hear what folks make of this. I spent several months in London in fall 2005, and have given a number of talks and seminars at UCL, but have really spent more time in Oxbridge then in the London academic community (and often I am spending time with the Nietzsche scholars in and around London). So I feel I can’t really comment on the London side of it. As to NYC, I presented at the NYU Colloqium a couple of years ago (when Sam Scheffler and Jeremy Waldron were running it), and found it very productive and not at all as Alon describes. I presented just a couple of weeks ago at Columbia’s Law & Philosophy Workshop, and again found it both congenial and stimulating, and saw no displays of self-promotion or “academic narcissism.” (The same was true when I presented at Columbia’s Workshop a decade earlier, when Kent Greenawalt was running it.) Perhaps I have been lucky.

I am genuinely curious to hear what others think about the two “academic communities” in legal/political philosophy and public law theory. Comments will have to be accompanied by a real email address, which will not appear. It would be nice if you also include your full name, which will appear.

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5 responses to “The “academic community”: New York vs. London”

  1. Jason Bell

    Some of the difference may come down to how easy it is to get to the nearest housing affordable on an academic’s budget. In London, professors can often live in affordable neighborhoods and still get home quickly from the city by public transport. Because of that, they feel more relaxed sticking around to talk after an event.

    In New York, it’s harder to reach affordable communities. So people leave earlier, and conversations end sooner. The professors who do stay around to chat may be the ones wealthy enough to live nearby. Meanwhile, the people who would love to talk more are already in their cars or on long subway rides trying to get home.

    When I’ve given talks in London, people have been very friendly and willing to talk afterward, but they also keep an eye on the time. No one wants to miss the last train and get stuck paying for an expensive taxi ride home.

    Reply
    1. JT

      Can this really be the case if one is comparing, say, UCL to NYU/Columbia?

      UCL salaries are pitifully low, especially considering the COL in London, whereas NYU/Columbia are often viewed as “apartments with some teaching obligations” because they come with subsidized housing (and not far from campus, so…).

      Reply
  2. Matthew H. Kramer

    I can’t comment on the intellectual scene in New York City, since my most recent visit there occurred more than two decades ago. I’m writing simply to mention that I’m pretty confident that Alon with reference to the UK is talking about Oxbridge (and perhaps beyond) as well as about London. As he writes in his penultimate paragraph, his remarks pertain to “the academic community here in England (in theory of public law and political philosophy).”

    Reply
    1. Jason Bell

      Maybe academic cultures, like individuals, can mature over time. Oxbridge and London universities have had centuries longer than their North American counterparts to develop their collegial traditions, like High Table and the rest. We are still pups on this side of the Atlantic, comparatively speaking.

      Reply
  3. Thus Spake Donaldthustra

    It’s true regarding NYU. Unlike Alon, I do not have the privilege of providing personal details. (Still, I will say that I’m not American, British, or Israeli.)

    But lest you think this is restricted to NYU, as many of your readers will know, its Colloquium regularly brings in people from several states as both viewers and participants. Watching visiting speakers crash and burn there, without revising their papers afterwards, without the intellectual honesty to admit mistakes, etc., is quite something. I watched one very prominent presenter be unable to answer honestly with her eyes open. Still, she didn’t care that her position was untenable and, indeed, insane; the BS she spewed for hours was quite astonishing. The vibe of the Colloqium was about presenting well, not defending your ideas honestly or revising them in the face of clear problems (let alone admitting their being erroneous).

    The same can be said regarding the smaller presentations at NYU. As just one example, I witnessed a relatively prominent guest NYC scholar’s book manuscript get “devastated” at his talk. (That result was widely acknowledged among the participants afterwards.) The resulting publication he brought forth would not have happened in England or elsewhere. The shamelessness. The unscrupulousness. The intellectual dishonesty. The indifference to attributing ideas to proper sources.

    And if I hear one more sophist talk about ‘the Rawlsian-Habermasian view’, I might puke. I’m looking at you, visitor from P.

    This isn’t just about the age of institutions in the respective countries either, contrary to Jason Bell’s speculation; and it’s also the case that NYU operates in a far more elitest fashion compared to the English ones, Just look who gets called on to ask questions, in what order, etc. Hierarchical to the core.

    By contrast, Oxbridge and London crowd TEND to be far more intellectually honest. Civil, but happy to devastate. Junior scholars are given a fair go and a running over the coals if warranted.

    The key difference: the English scene cares more about the truth and getting things right.

    Reply

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